Joe Martin -- 21d Yeah, I think the balances should be held in sats (shown in fiat) so the fiat number would go up and down and that would dawn on the artist that they're holding bitcoin which they can cash out to something like strike or hopefully go down the rabbit hole and want to hodl replyYeah, I think the balances should be held in sats (shown in fiat) so the fiat number would go up and down and that would dawn on the artist that they're holding bitcoin which they can cash out to something like strike or hopefully go down the rabbit hole and want to hodl
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Really enjoyed this conversion withnostr:nprofile1qqsfln36agetx43hsw8mgkm4hce9j46zu94m8er59nyzhv74p7gg0espz4mhxue69uhkzem8wghxummnw3ezumrpdejqzrthwden5te0dehhxtnvdakqh5ndv8 .I wanted to be honest about how I see the #V4V scene vs where I imagined things would be by now when I firststepped into this over 3 years ago.Why are people so resistant to giving this idea a try? And why do most people who do, leave after a short periodof time?Is it about improving the tech/ onboaring for artists and listeners, or is it about more education?Does bitcoin and nostr have a branding problem that needs to be abstracted away for most nontechnical users tofinally start adopting it?Are the quirky terms like 'valueforvalue' and 'boosting' leaving people with more questions than answers?I don't have the answers, but it's hard to look around and say 'we're winning' when users are down, zaps aredown and people that come into the ecosystem disappear within a short space of time.I'm still here because I believe in the underlying tech and principles of the idea but it's hard to see how thisstarts to get mass adoption without things being radically simplified. Maybe folks don't want mass adoptioneither and are happy for the valueverse to stay as a niche community which is fine, but we should be honestabout that.Trust me when I say, I'm never going back to just releasing music on all the old platforms. But we need some newblood around here, and artists ARE looking for this, they just don't know it yet. How do we get people fired upabout this?Hope this podcast gets the discussion movingLeave some thoughts in the comments ✌️nostr:nevent1qqsqcy84kpa3hykp3ygsyzgywm73g3nzk0glatr62atkye0xurwl7cqzyz0uuwh2x2e4vdur3769kad7xfv4wshpdwe7gapveq4m84g0jzr7vqcyqqqqqqghd5s7r
I think there are several factors here:For Artists:"People change when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of changing. ""Network affect" You go where your audience are, not where you'd like them to be.For the audience:Free > CostFree + adverts > Cost, for most, but not all.Attention is a currency most are used to paying, if you charge money on top of that, then the benefits have tobe clear. In the case of YouTube or Spotify, this becomes the removal of adverts.Semi serious, but perhaps artists could do deals with advertisers and write songs about private health insuranceor EasyJet and integrate the adverts into the songs 😂
I'm going to travel on a hypothetical journey which will include exploring the world of altcoins and NFTs. Ifthis offends you look away 😂Graphic artists have NFTs on altchains to enable them to monetise digital art. It doesn't lock it behind apaywall, but it does allow supporters to pay for unique digital copies. I know this went crazy with the wholebored ape thing, but the principle is valid.It would technically be possible to create an audio encoding system that embedded a wallet address which,through a smart contract, would force the transfer of funds in order to execute (play) the contract (musictrack).Thus, you could place audio tracks behind a decentralised, artist owned, paywall. That contract could bemodified by the artist so that they can change the monetary exchange depending on demand, fame etc... So anartist just starting out may wish to allow free play of their tracks, whereas Taylor Swift may up the cost toplay a song to $1 (for example).Historically, despite the bad wrap and the potential for abuse, recording labels and managers have been highlyincentivised financial guardians of their artists ensuring not only the artist earned money from their work, butthe studio and manager earned its share too.Placing that monetary management onto artists in the V4V space may be too much of an ask, encoding it into themusic tracks itself may be a way to abstract the artist from the financial management they are now burdenedwith.
Personally I think cryptographically linking art to money cheapens the art. I don’t know how we solve the #v4vdilemma but NFTs ain’t it.
I think NFTs got a bad name. Finally. Enough people got burned off phrases like “web3,” and “blockchain” throughthe rug pullers.
That won’t wash off easily.
shitcoins and NFTs have also screwed things up badly. V4V is a pure model with no catches or expectations. It isthe only reason I feel comfortable promoting this idea. To people that don't fully understand what I'm talkingabout, they think I'm being scammy somehow. It's sad
Why do they think you are being fraudulent? Do you have any theories?
Years of pump-and-dump scams and rugpulls and you ask this question.
Hold on a second, I'm not talking about NFT, I'm talking about V4V. What does one thing have to do with theother? What would make someone think V4V is a scam and confuse it with NFT? Again, I asked Joe. Why do theythink you would be deceiving them?
Because in their minds, bitcoin, crypto, web3, NFTs, and scams are all interchangeable. “Value for value” is ameaningless term to them.
In this case, we have a range of information. An education problem, and a platform problem. It's great toreceive in satoshi, but that shouldn't be the rule on Nostr. We already have a gap to be filled. The fan wantsto pay and receive the product, right? If this is resolved, from the artist's and the audience's point of view,the medium makes no difference whatsoever. Afterwards, one can even ask or advise that they work with BTC, butit shouldn't be mandatory. This is a barrier. In my opinion, an opportunity.
I think btc (lightning) being used under the hood is a must for the openness and interoperability aspect. But Ideffo thing default displays can be in fiat. Imagine downloading one of these apps as a listener that has neverinteracted with bitcoin and seeing a default zap of 1000 sats. They'd be like what the hell, how much is that?!*delete
A lot of fiat companies denominate in fiat while using Bitcoin on the backend.Strike being one of them, although they do show BTC as well, but one of their core markets is allowing foreignworkers to send their pay checks back home without the high cost of wire transfer services.
It's more for calculation purposes for newbies. They want to know if they're sending and receiving a dollar, not1000 sats.If the artists choose to keep the sats or cash out is up to them. We're trying to solve the payment issue forartists. Keep it as simple as possibleWe're looking at this from a payments perspective of lightning rather than btc as better savings (that's aseparate conversation)
While on holiday, say in Europe and you see something for 1 Euro, your mind automatically calculates that backto being around 80p.Bitcoin is just another currency, you either need to convert it or you don't.You say 1,000 Sats is a dollar, I wish, I remember those heady days 😂But that makes another point. In highly volatile jurisdictions such as the Lebanon, the local currency is notheld by its locals due to its high inflation rate.It is converted to and from either the product being bought or a more stable currency such as the USD, often inthe form of stablecoins. Even in high inflation or volatile currencies, people find ways to adapt.If you want to see pounds dollars or Sats, the choice is the users. If they choose to see pounds or dollars,they would not expect to experience the volatility of Bitcoin, or see that affect their dollar or poundearnings.A firm like Strike may make a good partner for this kind of wallet or service. I am deliberately not taggingStrike or Jake Mallers, as I think you should make those kind of strategic decisions.
Yeah, I think the balances should be held in sats (shown in fiat) so the fiat number would go up and down andthat would dawn on the artist that they're holding bitcoin which they can cash out to something like strike orhopefully go down the rabbit hole and want to hodl
I think there are several factors here:
For Artists:
"People change when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of changing. "
"Network affect" You go where your audience are, not where you'd like them to be.
For the audience:
Free > Cost
Free + adverts > Cost, for most, but not all.
Attention is a currency most are used to paying, if you charge money on top of that, then the benefits have to be clear. In the case of YouTube or Spotify, this becomes the removal of adverts.
Semi serious, but perhaps artists could do deals with advertisers and write songs about private health insurance or EasyJet and integrate the adverts into the songs 😂
e83b66a8…6c2b -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]I'm going to travel on a hypothetical journey which will include exploring the world of altcoins and NFTs. If this offends you look away 😂 Graphic artists have NFTs on altchains to enable them to monetise digital art. It doesn't lock it behind a paywall, but it does allow supporters to pay for unique digital copies. I know this went crazy with the whole bored ape thing, but the principle is valid. It would technically be possible to create an audio encoding system that embedded a wallet address which, through a smart contract, would force the transfer of funds in order to execute (play) the contract (music track). Thus, you could place audio tracks behind a decentralised, artist owned, paywall. That contract could be modified by the artist so that they can change the monetary exchange depending on demand, fame etc... So an artist just starting out may wish to allow free play of their tracks, whereas Taylor Swift may up the cost to play a song to $1 (for example). Historically, despite the bad wrap and the potential for abuse, recording labels and managers have been highly incentivised financial guardians of their artists ensuring not only the artist earned money from their work, but the studio and manager earned its share too. Placing that monetary management onto artists in the V4V space may be too much of an ask, encoding it into the music tracks itself may be a way to abstract the artist from the financial management they are now burdened with.
ee6ea13a…6e74 -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]Personally I think cryptographically linking art to money cheapens the art. I don’t know how we solve the #v4v dilemma but NFTs ain’t it.
9fce3aea…87e6 -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]I think NFTs got a bad name. Finally. Enough people got burned off phrases like “web3,” and “blockchain” through the rug pullers.
ee6ea13a…6e74 -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]That won’t wash off easily.
Joe Martin -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]shitcoins and NFTs have also screwed things up badly. V4V is a pure model with no catches or expectations. It is the only reason I feel comfortable promoting this idea. To people that don't fully understand what I'm talking about, they think I'm being scammy somehow. It's sad
a7c9b733…ca8f -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]Why do they think you are being fraudulent? Do you have any theories?
ee6ea13a…6e74 -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]Years of pump-and-dump scams and rugpulls and you ask this question.
a7c9b733…ca8f -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]Hold on a second, I'm not talking about NFT, I'm talking about V4V. What does one thing have to do with the other? What would make someone think V4V is a scam and confuse it with NFT? Again, I asked Joe. Why do they think you would be deceiving them?
ee6ea13a…6e74 -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]Because in their minds, bitcoin, crypto, web3, NFTs, and scams are all interchangeable. “Value for value” is a meaningless term to them.
a7c9b733…ca8f -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]In this case, we have a range of information. An education problem, and a platform problem. It's great to receive in satoshi, but that shouldn't be the rule on Nostr. We already have a gap to be filled. The fan wants to pay and receive the product, right? If this is resolved, from the artist's and the audience's point of view, the medium makes no difference whatsoever. Afterwards, one can even ask or advise that they work with BTC, but it shouldn't be mandatory. This is a barrier. In my opinion, an opportunity.
Joe Martin -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]I think btc (lightning) being used under the hood is a must for the openness and interoperability aspect. But I deffo thing default displays can be in fiat. Imagine downloading one of these apps as a listener that has never interacted with bitcoin and seeing a default zap of 1000 sats. They'd be like what the hell, how much is that?! *delete
e83b66a8…6c2b -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]A lot of fiat companies denominate in fiat while using Bitcoin on the backend. Strike being one of them, although they do show BTC as well, but one of their core markets is allowing foreign workers to send their pay checks back home without the high cost of wire transfer services.
Joe Martin -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]It's more for calculation purposes for newbies. They want to know if they're sending and receiving a dollar, not 1000 sats. If the artists choose to keep the sats or cash out is up to them. We're trying to solve the payment issue for artists. Keep it as simple as possible We're looking at this from a payments perspective of lightning rather than btc as better savings (that's a separate conversation)
e83b66a8…6c2b -- 21d [parent] | reply [1 reply]While on holiday, say in Europe and you see something for 1 Euro, your mind automatically calculates that back to being around 80p. Bitcoin is just another currency, you either need to convert it or you don't. You say 1,000 Sats is a dollar, I wish, I remember those heady days 😂 But that makes another point. In highly volatile jurisdictions such as the Lebanon, the local currency is not held by its locals due to its high inflation rate. It is converted to and from either the product being bought or a more stable currency such as the USD, often in the form of stablecoins. Even in high inflation or volatile currencies, people find ways to adapt. If you want to see pounds dollars or Sats, the choice is the users. If they choose to see pounds or dollars, they would not expect to experience the volatility of Bitcoin, or see that affect their dollar or pound earnings. A firm like Strike may make a good partner for this kind of wallet or service. I am deliberately not tagging Strike or Jake Mallers, as I think you should make those kind of strategic decisions.